We would like to get an idea of what people think about using automatic translations for our websites.
We have just added a new Translations menu (to your right) that lets visitors choose from the many languages available through google translate. Now this is just one of a couple of options we are exploring in order to deliver our websites in different languages, so we are keen to find out what people think...
Options / methods for website translation
- auto-translations only
- auto-translations to start with, serving as a base from which to develop manually translated content
- Forget auto-translations, and just go with the better quality manual translations
Now because we have sooooo much content online, and with the Square One WIKI and help file documentation being added this is only going to increase, it does become a huge proposition to manually translate all our resources. So because of this we are leaning towards the auto-translations -- but what we would be really interested to know is...
Are auto-translations a useful tool to start a manual translation ? That is, if you were going to translate a page by hand, would this be your choice to start the translation, do they make the process quicker / easier, or are they really so bad that its not even worth bothering with them ?
Now, with regard to our software, we have already implimented a system for manual translations (no auto-translate option I'm afraid), and we will be setting up a section of our site shortly where people will be able to share translations. For all those interested in looking at this, just hold down Ctrl + Shift + L in ECOTECT v5.50 beta to open the translations dialog.
As english only 
speakers we will rely very much on the opinions of the multilinguists out there to determine
the easiest and most useful methods. So please let us know your thoughts by posting your comments below...
Auto-translation beware
I've seen some gruesome auto-translations. I expect them to help with basic vocab, but as soon as things get specific and technical, they are a waste of time. You spend time correcting that you should have spent translating. Just my two cents.
Just tried the german translation... It's as bad as expected. Some of the texts hardly make any sense.
I agree with you Oliver,
I agree with you Oliver, these translation tools do not work as good as neeeded.
Alta Vista Babel fish
On the other hand, by trying the Alta Vista site http://babelfish.altavista.com, I translated the site in French, and while not perfect, things tend to make sense. That would need to be checked with other languages, and I should look further into technical papers etc...
At this stage, we may look wether or not some translators are better than others or if they are all worthless (although quite funny).
Olivier
Babel Fish
Tried part of the SQU1 Wiki in Babelfish and it is a bit better. I must admit that it would take some of the basic work off your hands.
Babel Fish 2, Google 0...
Okay so its sounding like there is definately a variation in quality for auto-translators, but overall they are only useful up to a point.
We've now done away with the google only translation option so that visitors can now try Babel Fish too.
Yes, that was the idea at least to start with. We expected that the preffered option would be to have pages translated by hand, but that gets quite difficult given the amount of content and also that we need to keep (help files) updated, inline with the software -- its hard enough doing this in just one language
Yeh, that too. Is it a good place to start a translation (at the very least) or not worth the trouble (at all) ? Can it make translation by hand quicker ? or is it more difficult trying to make sense of an auto-translation, than starting with a blank page ?
And I guess another important question is, if your english is quite limited surely an auto-translation is better than nothing ?
I know for me if I came across a non-english site I would be completely lost and any kind of translation to english would be better than none... should've paid more attention in french class at high-school
...anyway, I think regardless we will strive to include manually translated content, but it will probably take a while to get the translations done.
Translation or no translation
Ok, I am going to take a stand on the issue.
I'll play the devil's advocate and argue against a manual translation
Here are my arguments, but keep in mind I can only speak for the French language translation:
1. I have gone through more translated pages, and I must say it comes out pretty good. In fact, when I go to the Ecotect product page, the "Who uses ECOTECT" paragraph, for example, is just plain perfectly translated.
Certainly, there are idiosynchracies (sp?), such as Square One becomes actually translated, but I feel someone without any English knowledge would get a good idea of what the site and software are about.
In fact, to test my argument, I am going to ask a test candidate - my father will be perfect - who has no knowledge of the English language , nor thermal simulation software and see what he can make out of the translated site.
In all cases, I feel SQU1 is already going above and beyond its duties by providing the translation option on its front page...nice sensitive touch.
2. Since I think we can agree that automatic translation can take care of the bulk of the translation, we then hit the threshold of the law of diminishing returns, whereas it will take more time and effort to try to perfect the translation. I myself could not be perfect at translating the site in French, although I am a native speaker!
To add to this the fact, as Caroline pointed out, that the site will need update every so often, it may become impossible to really catch up. Hence: somewhat understandable new posts and updates versus nicely translated old pages.
3. I wish to remain constructive, so I am proposing the following to couple with the automatic translation feature and benefit everyone using the site:
a) A dedicated forum for translation issues, with the option to organize them by languages (with the language as a header).
b) A glossary - already started on the site - that could be part of a wiki, where registered users can add and edit definitions.
c) Not quite on the same topic, but close, another dedicated page for formulae used in the building sciences. I feel the formulae used by Ecotect would be nice, as many users ask for these while writing papers etc...and they are understood by all!
The ability to actually translate the software itself and its help file is also key I feel. I think a manual translation of the actual software interface would be nice and rather straight forward.
For the help file, I would stick with a similar automatic translation tool located on the menu.
With this said, I am currious about other user's experience with non-western auto translation, such as chinese or other languages using different characters.
), but I feel things have been going well thus far. I hope some users are not being discouraged from posting post though. Could there be the automatic translation tool available for when posting a post from your language to english?
I really appreciate the breadth of users from so many regions of the world, and understand some of the struggles experienced at trying to make oneself understood while posting a post (it often goes both ways too
These are my thoughts. Curious to hear what you think.
Cheers,
Olivier
Thanks for your thoughts
Thanks for your thoughts and ideas Olivier, and its very helpful having someone else play the "devil"
I was afraid to do so thinking it might sound like we couldn't be bothered getting proper translations done -- which is not the case at all... with our new site we have made sure that either option is easily do-able.
Would be very intersted to find out how your Dad goes with the auto-translations -- so please keep us informed...
>> A dedicated forum for translation issues
Do you mean like a forum for each non-english language, to discuss anything in that language ?
This might work well if we managed to include auto-translations back to english, and it would also make sure that Andrew and I (and other english only visitors) get a fair dose of the auto-translation experience too
We will definately be adding the development of the glossary to the wiki as you suggest. This was actually something we had planned but hadn't spent any time thinking how it might be done -- your comments have prompted us to start thinking about it though, so it will probably get done sooner rather than later now.
The formulae section too, we'll make sure gets developped in the wiki.
Our software is now translate-able too (Ctrl + Shft + L) and you're right it is certainly key to helping non-english users. To get the software translations started (they're just text files) we might use an auto-translate tool, with the aim that once we setup a place on our site for people to help develop the translations, then I'm sure they will get much better than auto-translations very quickly.
So it sounds like, with a few bits and pieces here and there we might be on track to de-anglicising
Square One a bit...
Glossary and translation
Hi ebverybody,
I think the idea about the glossary is great! I have one English / Portuguese version already done so let me know if you need it and/or how can I send it to you. I've translated 86 terms and have a quick explanation in Portuguese added together with each of them so I suppose it can be useful.
I still don't know what to say about the translations. I've tried some of them and I think I agree with Oliver H. But as pointed out by Olivier it is good to check more pages and see what happens.
Anyway let me know about the glossary.
Regards to all,
Clarice
my hovercraft is full of eels....
I think that probably sums up my view of the automatic translation tools....
Great idea - but I don't think the engines are up to the complexity of a technical subject yet
Giving up?
Alright,alright...
I spoke to my dad over the weekend: I had asked him to check out the website and translate it in French using the "automobile" translation tool...
As he has pratically no knowledge of the English language, nor ECOTECT, I thought he'd be a good candidate.
Well, he could not understand too much. He got an idea of what the software was about, once he managed his way to the product page. He got a scare when the site asked him if it was okay to store a "biscuit" on his computer. That is a cookie for the rest of us...
Unfortunately, the name "Square One" itself, becomes translated (not every where) to some funny name, as if it was a place (a square as in a city square).
Needless to say my optimism for endorsing the automatic translation was shot down. I definately lost my French.
My dad could however provide some insightful feedbacks.
He felt that at the very least, the very first page should be hand-translated, so as to making sure that whoever gets to it knows what the site and software is about. If the first page lays out an attractive and comprehensive synopsis, the visitor will be more likely to go on and even forgive the bad translation in the other pages; otherwise, the visitor may be quick to give up. Hence a good descriptive (my father commented on having graphics right on the first page to show the first time visitor what the site and software were about) right on the home page.
I thought these were good feedbacks.
So it looks like there are some work ahead of us.
Olivier
Spanish Translations
Allow me to add that the automatic translation feature to spanish is not really very good at all, but more of a novelty... though it does make for some funny things, like making the link that says home be translated to homely, or making the translation for "the weather tool" become, "resist the tool" which is technically correct
Having said that, having seen the amount of content that you would have to translate, I guess that it could become useful while you manage to get translations up and running.
As for the difference between both Google and Babelfish, in regards to spanish, I think that Google Translate did a better job on the "Products" page than the babelfish one.
Allow me to suggest that you really should do a direct translation of the main websites at least, and that if you do decide to translate the website to spanish, send me an e-mail, and I'll be glad to help out as much as I can.
Auto Translation
I agreed with Oliver.
I tried the translation tool + lo and behold, out of the 4 translation options for chinese, only Google Translation for Chinese-trad works.
I have yet to find any good auto-translation program my self.
Will let you know if i come across any..
Manual translations only of main pages
English is the international language, so most users shouldn't have a problem to read it. Personally I am not a fan of automatic translations, because it is not able to 'catch' the very refinements and underlying humour of a language - which make a text interesting and agreable to read. The human touch behind the use of computers..
Agreeing with Jorge, I would also like to suggest that you provide manual, good-quality translations only of the main pages on the site, and keep the pages that are regularly updated in English.
On a corner of each page there could be little flag icons that lighten up if a translation is available.
Best regards